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Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3261	Posted - 2015.10.02 11:38:07 - [1] - Quote Guys I've ever declared a war or been in a corp that either fights defensively in wars declared against or declares wars themselves but wars definitely need to be nerfed.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3262	Posted - 2015.10.02 12:30:24 - [2] - Quote Odie McCracken wrote: Aquilan Aideron wrote: Can you tell how CCP hates new and small entities? Not really, can you elaborate? They've made it cost and risk prohibitive for them to run their own wardec corps.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3265	Posted - 2015.10.02 13:25:39 - [3] - Quote It's the exact position of literally everyone that thinks wars need some kind of nerf. They universally have no experience of the war declaration system other than being a totally passive non-participant. Yet somehow they feel qualified to talk about what is or isn't broken about it. They don't seem concerned or even aware of the ways that the system is actually mechanically broken. Like how when a corp or alliance you're at war with disbands you're stuck with a bill in your wallet for a war against the entity that no longer exists that stays there forever unless you pay it. They don't care about it actually working or being balanced, they just want it nerfed as much as possible, preferably to the point where nobody uses the mechanic at all. It's ridiculously transparent.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3272	Posted - 2015.10.02 13:58:21 - [4] - Quote It's difficult to describe how dumb that post is. Corps rolling to avoid a war is actually pretty uncommon in my experience. Corps and alliances disbanding as the result of a protracted war where they experience a lot of losses is extremely common and is in fact the classic "win" condition and a common objective of a war. Not to mention that people drop and disband alt and holding corps from alliances all the time. You clearly have a preconception about highsec PVP groups that isn't accurate and the fact that you don't care about actual bugs in mechanics because you personally dislike a certain type of gameplay illustrates my point perfectly. You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3279	Posted - 2015.10.02 14:50:46 - [5] - Quote I'm sorry that you don't know anything about wars and can't tell the difference between a corp rolling to avoid a war and a corp disbanding because they got their pooholes smashed and subsequently failcascaded. I assume it's my fault you can't make that distinction, much it's a same way that the bills are bugged?
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3286	Posted - 2015.10.02 15:37:54 - [6] - Quote The fact that you need to have basic information about how people behave during wars spoon fed to you is a pretty clear indicator that you're not qualified to be part of the discussion.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3287	Posted - 2015.10.02 17:28:41 - [7] - Quote It's not my fault you decided to make idiotic arguments about game mechanics without having any actual knowledge of the subject matter.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3312	Posted - 2015.10.05 16:36:26 - [8] - Quote Effort is probably meant to infer the various ways in which you can not present yourself as a huge defenseless pi+¦atas and to work to make player versus player conflicts engaging and fun for yourself and your corpmates. This is of course the idealistic view based on the best way to play the game, what you described is what carebears actually do based on their idea of how they should play the game.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3312	Posted - 2015.10.05 16:55:49 - [9] - Quote I didn't realize baby seals talk like gibbering imbeciles.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3313	Posted - 2015.10.05 17:17:12 - [10] - Quote Applying conventional ethics to an environment where everyone is immortal would futile even if it was real. Eve being such an environment and also being totally fictional makes concepts of morality completely inapplicable.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3315	Posted - 2015.10.05 18:17:48 - [11] - Quote Which is absurd because 90% of the wars in the game have nothing to do with structures of any kind.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3317	Posted - 2015.10.05 20:06:43 - [12] - Quote Kinete Jenius wrote: Vimsy Vortis wrote: Which is absurd because 90% of the wars in the game have nothing to do with structures of any kind. I'm going to need a citation on this. I'm pretty sure more than 10% of wardecs are related to towers and custom offices. Citation is actual war reports, the vast majority of wars involve no structure kills whatsoever. And if you're willing to screw around with Zkill you'll find a lot of highsec structure kills are POS modules rather than POCOs. Wars involving POCO ownership are pretty common, but they're nowhere near 10% of wars it's probably closer to 3-5%.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3322	Posted - 2015.10.06 14:55:04 - [13] - Quote Nobody has the right to engage in any activity free of interference from other players because everyone has the right to interact with other players however they want. EVE is a single continuous sandbox, not multiple individual sandboxes. This is literally the selling point of the game and it's core principle. Undermining it will only ever result in disaster.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3325	Posted - 2015.10.06 18:19:13 - [14] - Quote If you move 30 jumps away you get to test the often touted carebear rhetoric about everyone who ever declared a war being permanently glued to a trade hub undock. Realistically if you do move and you're not at war with P I R A T or whatever the current hub camper respawn is they'll still show up at some point. However they're likely to bring much lighter ships and fewer assets like boosts and logistics, which makes armed resistance more viable. And of course if they are in fact only interested in hub camping they pose no threat whatsoever.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3328	Posted - 2015.10.06 18:47:41 - [15] - Quote It kind of depends on the number of active wars they have and how many guys you have active and in space in the same area. If you have a bunch of 5.0 sec status dudes in space 23/7 sooner or later someone is going to send an alt to see what's up. Obviously if it turns out those guys 30 jumps out are mining in ventures there's probably not going to be any follow up. But if they're in marauders there probably will be. Of course if they're a large group with 30,000 war targets they probably don't even run locates on anyone who isn't a contract target. The specifics will always vary obviously since each aggressor and defender are different and the motivations and objectives are infinitely variable. That's why I like wars, every one is different and there's so much nuance to it!
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3334	Posted - 2015.10.07 11:14:13 - [16] - Quote 30,000 was kind of an exaggeration, but not a huge one and I wasnt referring to concurrently logged in players. Specifically I was talking about trade hub camping groups that declare war on nullsec alliances, they routinely have literally 10,000+ targets, so there's no chance of them adding and locating every single target. Not that we don't currently have 7,000 war targets right now ourselves.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3334	Posted - 2015.10.07 13:10:01 - [17] - Quote If you can effectively prosecute 140 wars at the same time with 106 members why should you be prevented from doing so by an arbitrary mechanical limitation? From a sandbox perspective the only limit should be their ability to pay the bill and fight the targets. Given that they end up outnumbered by multiple hundreds to one they should be constantly overwhelmed by the defenders. But the defenders instead take no action whatsoever and die en-masse in trade hubs. The large number of wars is a symptom of how incredibly passive defenders tend to be when faced with wars, even ones with massive military superiority would rather take billions of isk in losses and whine about bad game design than take any action themselves. Defenders do nothing which allows aggressors to act with absolute impunity.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3342	Posted - 2015.10.07 15:23:09 - [18] - Quote You can either spam and hope for the best or declare war on nullsec corps and camp trade hubs. CCP Continuously nerfing highsec PVP in response to carebear whining has conditioned people into whining on the forums to get what they want in game, rather than actually playing the game.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3345	Posted - 2015.10.07 17:17:08 - [19] - Quote They can continue to do the same thing they've been doing for years and nerf highsec aggression yet again but doing so won't fix any kind of perceived problem because it doesn't address or even attempt to identify the causes. Nerfing aggression is a blunt instrument that tries (and usually fails, see the rise of CODE. and the current large highsec merc alliances that we get to enjoy as a result as past nerfs) to address the most superficial symptoms. As long as changes are unintelligent knee-jerk responses to whining without any attempt to find out what player need the "problem" behavior is satisfying the problem won't be solved, it'll stay the same or get worse, but will manifest in a different way. If hitting something with a hammer ten times doesn't fix it hitting it an eleventh or twelfth time won't fix it either.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3352	Posted - 2015.10.08 02:34:40 - [20] - Quote It would literally just be another disincentive for "normal" highsec corps to use the war declaration mechanic. Wars by "normal" corps against their rivals are already exceedingly rare (largely because the ally system leaves them open to unilateral escalation from anyone, nearly instantly, for free). It's not a change that would benefit anyone in any way.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3352	Posted - 2015.10.08 11:09:41 - [21] - Quote Let's completely ignore that unless you are from bizarro world the highsec pvp community don't generally run missions at all. Why would you want to remove a source of income for someone because they're at war? Exactly how would that improve gameplay for anyone?

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